Cause An Affect podcast with Bob Buchanan (thank you, Dad)!
I’m here with my Dad, Bob Buchanan. He happens to also be the best man in my wedding 19 yrs ago and my life + business mentor who invariably has a life lesson in nearly every conversation we have — it’s exhausting but endearing. Dad is a third-generation real estate developer and has run Buchanan Partners in the Greater Washington DC area for nearly 50 years.
The core of what Dad believes in is family first and community a close second. He founded an economic development non-profit called The 2030 Group a decade ago and was instrumental in recently bringing Amazon HQ2 (2nd headquarters) for the Washington DC area.
Tune into this podcast interview between my Dad and me on the Soundcloud audio file above, Youtube or on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Google Play, or most other podcast players.
Transcript:
Ryan Buchanan: Good. All right, here we go. Hey there, welcome to the Cause an Affect podcast, where we talk about the human story lives of entrepreneurs and change-makers. This is your host, Ryan Buchanan and I’m here with my dad, Bob Buchanan. He happened to also be the best man in my wedding 19 years ago, and my life and business mentor, who invariably has a life lesson in nearly every conversation we have, can be exhausting, but it’s endearing. Dad is a third-generation real estate developer and he’s run Buchanan Partners in the greater Washington, DC area for nearly 50 years. The core of what dad believes in his family first and community a close second. Welcome to the show, Dad.
Bob Buchanan: Glad to be here. I’m anxious to hear how you’re going to show all these great life lessons.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. So, part of why I’m interviewing Mom yesterday as an entrepreneur and you today is the folks that I interview on this podcast we have created kind of a community of getting together once a month for digital happy hours in this whole new coronavirus world of not being able to see each other in person.
Ryan Buchanan: And one of the things that we start off with as we go around in a circle, I guess on a Zoom call — it’s kind of a digital circle, but the question is “what’s good in your world?” And so, for me, my answer is that this has brought family closer together. As you know, Dad, we did a birthday call with my daughter, Grace, last night of the whole family calling in from all over the country to wish her a happy birthday and tell one thing they love about her and going around that way. And then we do our family calls every Sunday night.
Ryan Buchanan: And so I just thought, well, gosh, now I know that geography isn’t a barrier. It’s not like you have to be in Oregon for me to interview you on this. So, I thought, what better way than to kick this off. And my first question that I always ask folks is how we first met and you might remember that better than I would. So, I thought you might share a little bit on that.
Bob Buchanan: Sure. Well, the crazy part was I got picked up by the police for speeding on the way to the hospital taking your very pregnant mother because she was going to be induced and had a scheduled time for the baby to be born. And on the way, I got a little fast because I was nervous. I wanted to make sure she was there before things started happening in the car. And lo and behold, a policeman pulled me over. And for the first time in my life, I really had a good excuse for why I was speeding. And the officer offered to lead the way if that was necessary, and I said, “No, I’ll drive slower but thank you very much.” So, that was on the way to the hospital. And then when we heard-
Ryan Buchanan: You’re used to a lot of police interaction though, right? So, this is not a problem.
Bob Buchanan: I was not used to anything like that. I was mortified that I had been picked up by being careless actually. Anyway, at the hospital, Mom and I had done this child preparation Lamaze, where the husband participate with the wife and helped the breathing, helped calm and all that things that we had trained for, for your delivery. I was told by the nurse that I was doing it all wrong. The way I was putting my hand on Mom’s knee was going to cut off a blood flow.
Bob Buchanan: And all of a sudden, all these weeks and months of preparation were thrown down the drain as I had to stand back and do something that we hadn’t tried to do or worked on. But it worked out fine. You came out just fine and healthy. And once again, the miracle birth proved itself and here we go.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s great. I love the family lore of these stories that we can relish as we tell them.
Bob Buchanan: Now, one thing the doctor did say that I thought was something I’ve never thought of, you are coming out so fast by the time mom was induced and the doctor didn’t even have time to put on his gown, his mask, et cetera and he said, “Try whistling.” and Sharon’s trying to say, “Why whistle?” And basically, the doctor said, “Have you ever tried to take a crap while you’re whistling? You can’t do it. So, that’ll slow the baby down.” So …
Ryan Buchanan: Never heard that part of the story.
Bob Buchanan: You were the whistling man.
Ryan Buchanan: Great. Okay, that’s a great visual. So, you are a man who’s known to go deep right away. So, I thought I’d follow in suit. And you and I were having a phone conversation a couple weeks ago about spirituality. And I was digging deep on that and it ultimately led to kind of life purpose. And what I picked up from you in that conversation was kind of leadership is everything and really being a leader in the community, leader in your family, things like that.
Ryan Buchanan: And so, I just wondered what do you want to be remembered for? Let’s say you’ve got 20 years left on earth and you are intentional about a lot of things. And so, I just wanted to kind of boil it down and see what you think will be the thing that really sticks with your life.
Bob Buchanan: Well, first of all, leadership isn’t everything. Sometimes you need to be a good follower. And I cite that because I once had a college roommate who became Mr. Planet. And he later became dean of the school of environmental studies and a bunch of us raised money so that he could bring in the best faculty and students. And the long and the short of it was he was so far ahead of anything I could have ever imagined, that I just simply said, “What can we do to be the best followers you can have?” And he basically said, “Raise more money for me so I can have the funds to build this program to where it is world class.”
Bob Buchanan: So, I don’t want to just dwell on being a leader because I think sometimes it’s just as important to be a good follower. Having said that, I do feel that I was groomed to be a leader, both from my father’s leadership and his business. He was a home builder and became President of the National Association of Homebuilders.
Bob Buchanan: So, I was aware of the leadership ladder, if you will, and that was always intriguing to me and then serving in the Navy and being in a leadership position there and then coming back and working in the development business. Didn’t follow my father’s footsteps, kind of went my own way. But I was surrounded by good leaders in the community doing work in the community and that led to my involvement in public-private partnerships, which really established my leadership as in the community.
Bob Buchanan: And so, I guess you’re asking about legacy. I would like to be thought of as someone who is a go-to person when you need help, and he’s there for you whether your family or friend or a business associate, that I’ll do my best to come through in a time of need. And I think again though, being a good citizen is also something that means a lot to me, because I think in being a good citizen, that’s where you’re trying to do things for your country. You’re trying to do things for your community. You’re trying to do the best you can to make that part of your world as successful as it can be for whomever.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. I brought along this little book that I did for you on your 70th and asked family members and friends throughout your life. And I think what I kind of took away from people’s stories of different parts of your life and life moments that were really special to a lot of people, probably 40 plus people, who wrote in, I think you’re on target. It’s that sense of loyalty and consistency and being a rock for others. And when I did the podcast interview with Mom yesterday, that’s what she described — you’re her rock. And I think a lot of people in the family would say that and your close friends would say that. So, I think that’s kind of what you’re getting at.
Bob Buchanan: I think you never really know what people are thinking. And the best you can do is be open and honest. But also, as you listen to people and try to understand what their issues are and being responsive to it. I think that’s part of being a good leader or manager or friend. And I think I’ve been lucky enough to have had been around some pretty wonderful people who I learned from and that was some of their skills, where making sure they heard accurately what I was trying to say or they wanted to make sure I heard them accurately and …
Ryan Buchanan: Cool. So, next question, we’re going to kind of shift, I mean, from a business standpoint on a specific element that’s gotten a ton of press nationally. You helped to found a community organization route, Economic Development Group (the 2030 Group) for greater Washington, DC area, which is known as a political town and not necessarily like the heart of business in the country. And so, you’re trying to kind of brand the region as being relevant to business and all that.
Ryan Buchanan: And you were a key contributor to helping to bring Amazon’s HQ2, their second headquarter to the greater DC area. And I’m a little bit surprised you didn’t mention that as part of your legacy because I think that’s kind of a specific thing that is really huge for the region. I was going to have you describe like, how it came to be and your role in it.
Bob Buchanan: Well, as I mentioned before, I’ve been involved in a lot of public-private partnerships. And one of those that I was involved in when Amazon came out with their request for information they called it. I was chair of Montgomery County Economic Development Corp. And one of the things that turned out to be unique about this whole thing was it was the most far thinking innovative request by a company looking to see why it should locate where.
Bob Buchanan: And it really forced all of us in responding to that to look at things that we’ve never looked at before. And one of the things that I was very impressed that we did, and I was a part of organizing that, is instead of marketing the region by individual jurisdictions, we went and commissioned through the Council of Governments, which is the overall political Congress, if you will, of the local jurisdictions, hired a company called Datastory, to do an analysis of the region as a whole, where we lived, where we worked, the cost of living, the educational scholastic attainments by our workforce.
Bob Buchanan: And instead of pitting Maryland against Virginia, or one of the counties against each other like we normally do, we just sold the region. And it was the first time the region realized how many assets it had that were unknown to many of us. And when I attended the board meeting the COG board meeting when this report was being presented, the shock of realization of just how much better we were than we thought we were really was electrifying. And I think it gave us energy to go out and work together and show how, if Amazon were going to move into our area, their people weren’t going to just necessarily live in one specific jurisdiction. They’d be living all over.
Bob Buchanan: And the quality of life and the caliber of our workforce eventually caused them to give us to be on the shortlist. And on the shortlist were three jurisdictions in our region. And so, we all felt that we had won. And I think we learned a lot from Amazon. And one of the things I learned was the importance of workforce development. How does academia interact with the workforce? What can we, we Amazon, how can we know that we’re going to be hiring the most innovative, talented workforce from within this region if we locate there? So, that generated a whole new bond, if you will, between academia and the market.
Ryan Buchanan: It was probably the University of Virginia grads that sold them on the region. Yeah.
Bob Buchanan: Well, let’s just say it was more than that. And Virginia Tech, much to the heart of Mason and other, UVA, Virginia Tech was poised, ready, and willing to bring in a billion-dollar campus if you will, which is not too shabby. And they’re going to be very innovative.
Ryan Buchanan: So, the greater DC area is like six to seven million people. And so, why is it such a big deal that 50,000 jobs or it was going to be 25,000 and then New York had 25,000. But New York basically said, “We don’t want you, Amazon,” after they got there. And so, it’s 50,000 high-paying jobs. Why does that matter that much when there’s millions of other jobs here?
Bob Buchanan: Well, I didn’t answer your question very well, initially, but so I’m glad you asked this part. So, we had been a federal city. We had federal town that was generating the jobs it was generating through federal contractors, the growth in the economy. And just as an example of how much we had grown, it was from 1980-ish, the federal outsourcing dollars was, I’m going to be off with my numbers, but let’s just say $4 billion. By the year 2010, that $4 billion had grown to $84 billion.
Bob Buchanan: So, that was a huge growth for us and especially in the real estate, commercial real estate because of all this growth and stuff like that. But we were so known as a federal town that no one thought we could do anything else, yet we have the highest hospitality, number of hospitality companies here. We have a lot of startups, people who have been entrepreneurial like you who have wanted to work here and provide services for better software if you will.
Ryan Buchanan: How helpful was it to have a prominent leader say “drain the swamp” over and over again?
Bob Buchanan: This was before his time, thank god. But the point was, and you asked how the 2030 Group was trying to rebrand the region for something other than being a federal city dependent on federal contracting. So, to have an Amazon come and say, “We want to be a part of this, too.” And Amazon is not known as a federal contractor, Amazon’s known for all the other things, and not necessarily distribution, that was a big incentive for us to do what we could to attract them, to show that we were capable of being like another city that didn’t have the federal government to pay for everything or decide everything for us.
Bob Buchanan: And one other thing I’ll mention on this is I think one of the things that proved to us that we could work together as a region that we had never done before because we’ve relied on the federal government, there was a Metro funding. Our transit system is called Metro for lack of a better word, and rail and bus. And every year, they had to go hand in hand to get the funding for their budget that year from the jurisdictions and some from the federal government.
Bob Buchanan: And we determined that we would never be able to, those of us involved in the HQ2 process said we’d never going to get an Amazon to come and take us seriously if our transit system is living hand to mouth. We have to have dedicated sustained sustainable funding. So, a group was formed called MetroNow to make that happen. That happened.
Bob Buchanan: And that was the first time we realized we all could work together on something that was going to be beneficial for the region. And that led to that sense of cooperation and led to the sense of if we’re able to get Amazon, doesn’t matter if they’re Maryland, Virginia or the district, we’re all going to win. And I think that feeling continues to this day.
Ryan Buchanan: Okay. That was a huge win. We are going to go back in time, 70 years, and start at the beginning with Bob Buchanan’s little boy in Kensington, Maryland. And I just wanted to give our listeners a sense of what life was like back then. You have three younger sisters and a mom and dad who are super engaged in the family and a very loving family. But what kinds of activities were you into and what was it like, way back, way back yonder?
Bob Buchanan: Way back? Well, I’m sure I won’t say half the things I probably should say. But Mom had four of us in five years and I was the oldest and I was the only boy. So, we were I would say very similar to all the other families, the middle-class family. School, education was really important from our family standpoint because my father was lucky enough to have gone to college during the depression. My mother couldn’t go to college because she got a scholarship, but one big enough for her to attend the school that she had been accepted to.
Bob Buchanan: So, education was a big deal growing up. And the fact that my mother’s mother, my grandmother, lived with us for a part of the year and she was as well read and loved education as the way forward in life. So, I grew up with more focus on school and reading and learning to write as sports, as other things. And my father was becoming a successful home builder. And he was very busy. And I don’t think we realized how well off we were until later when I saw how differently I had been sheltered from some of the issues, I’ll say inner city issues. We were living in the suburbs. And I was able to go to a good school.
Bob Buchanan: I thought I was very normal. But looking back, I realized I was very special to have had the caliber of education and the safety of the neighborhoods, and the sense of growth, as my father did well in business and we were able to travel some. And that picture you showed in the book, he was a big fisherman. And that was a fishing trip where we were able to go on.
Ryan Buchanan: It’s funny how the person perception of your kids and I’ve said this before with one or two other folks who’ve been on this podcast that to me, and I think some others in the community might use this like this very serious businessman. So, there’s a lot of other parts to you. But I mean, there’s an element that I think you as the oldest child, you are a little bit more serious than Mom being the youngest child and I’m the youngest child, so I am not as serious at all as you. But what was the family dynamics like with you and your siblings?
Bob Buchanan: Well, being the boy and being the oldest, I was raised to make sure my sisters were okay. I was raised to take care of your sisters. Make sure they’re going to be okay and we’re counting on it. And I got that at a very early age. And so we were all pretty close. And I was lucky enough that they didn’t cost me much harm and didn’t tempt me to do bad things because we were all pretty close, and they’ve done very well. And to this day, I think we’re lucky that we have stayed as close as we are.
Ryan Buchanan: So, I know this question, which is a super basic question that all people get asked in America I feel like at some point, but for whatever reason, it kept you up at night when I shared it with you a few days ago, but when you were 8 or 10-year-old boy, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Bob Buchanan: I really can’t remember and to be honest with you, other than the typical thing, maybe I was going to be a cowboy or maybe I was going to later on, I met a great novel and I wanted to be a spy. And then I’ve thought about being in the military, but they were fleeting. I just wanted to do well in school and see what the options were. And at one time as much older, I figured maybe I go into my father’s business. But then I didn’t think I wanted that because I wasn’t anywhere as near as good as he was. And I didn’t know what I was going to do. I would just press myself to get as successful as I could in the schoolwork.
Bob Buchanan: And fortunately, and we’ll get into this, but fortunately, my dad convinced me to go into the Navy right after college so I could be exposed to a lot more than I had. And as I said, looking back, I was probably more sheltered than I realized and getting exposed to the world through the Navy was an eye opener.
Ryan Buchanan: So, you talked about school a bit. Your dad went here as well, I believe. You went to an all-boys school in Bethesda, Maryland called Landon. And you’re one of the few people I’ve ever met who is so committed to that school like 60 years later with the alumni network and doing reunions and all that. I mean, a lot of us, I don’t know, my connection was closer to my college friends than high school, but how did a school like Landon create such loyalty for you? Yeah.
Bob Buchanan: Okay. Well, I can answer that. But I also want to say, I think I sent you all email when I left my last Yale class council meeting. So, I’ve become close to my college group as well. But Landon, there were fewer of us. And I’ll just give you one anecdote that maybe it will explain why, why I stayed so close to Landon.
Bob Buchanan: So, at our 50th reunion, we hosted a dinner at our house. And there were 42 of us who graduated, and some 33 attended the 50th reunion. And we had a dinner and one thing led to another. And some of us stood up to comment on what Landon meant to us and how we had gone and been successful in life and the things we learned at Landon.
Bob Buchanan: And at the table I was sitting at, one of my classmates had bought his wife for the first time to a reunion. And after about the fifth person stood up and talked about honor, integrity and the values he learned at Landon, she leans over to her husband and said, “I thought you were the only asshole with these values. I can’t believe I’m listening for 30 other guys sound just like you.”
Bob Buchanan: And made me laugh because I think we all got that value not from each other but from the faculty and the leadership at Landon. At Landon, we were all very competitive and kind of in our own little cliques. But after graduation, we’ve come closer over the years because we realized how much we had learned and how much we had valued and again, that was kind of came out that 50th reunion dinner.
Ryan Buchanan: I’ll ask then the next … I usually ask about an obstacle or really defining moment that happened right when you graduate from high school and go to college or maybe right after college. And I’m thinking that you may answer that as going into the Navy right out of college. But I’ll ask both of the questions at the same time. What made you decide to go to Yale and also, was there a moment that was really challenging in college that was kind of defining for you to get through?
Bob Buchanan: So, I applied to three colleges, Yale, Princeton, and Cornell. And I got early accepted at Yale and Princeton, so I withdrew my application to Cornell. And the reason for Yale was, I considered it the best I could get into. And Princeton was also a great school, obviously, but Princeton had the same suburban campus that Landon had. And Yale was a city school. And I thought, “Okay, I’ll learn more from that environment than a continuation of my Landon environment.”
Bob Buchanan: But I’ve worked so hard to get into college and drove myself so hard that I got into Yale and I kind of coasted for two years. I didn’t like what I was doing. I was taking economics because my dad wanted me to go into business and you had to have an economic background to be successful in business and da, da, da. And I found myself starting to cut classes, not caring about my grades as much, not being that driven straight-A student I aspired to be before.
Bob Buchanan: And in the fall of my junior year, I just surprised myself. I went in and saw the dean. And I just said, “I’m not happy. I’m not doing well. This isn’t who I am.” And he gave me a great taking courses to learn, taking courses you’re never going to be exposed to that kind of stuff after you leave here, and what do you want to do, and what do you want to learn and what interests you.
Bob Buchanan: And at the end of our meeting, I changed my major. I took a number of courses at his recommendation that he thought was really unique at Yale. And it changed the whole outlook towards education. My grades went from B minus, C plus to A plus, A and A plus. People couldn’t believe I was doing as well as I was. And I was delighted and I took a history of art course that got me into art and architecture. I took political science courses that really helped me understand how things worked in the public sector. It was a great experience. But until that dean did his thing, I was one unhappy student there, so.
Ryan Buchanan: Was this the same dean that you kept a letter that I have in your book, 70th book where you broke a window and you didn’t pay it back or?
Bob Buchanan: No, that was another dean. I didn’t get to see the dean. That was the campus cops that were concerned about me, because-
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah, the police go way back, Dad.
Bob Buchanan: We had this macho thing and I drew the short straw and I had to prove myself. And that was the stupidest thing I probably did in those four years. Done a lot of dumb things. But that was really stupid. And I’m lucky I didn’t get thrown out.
Ryan Buchanan: So, tell me about how you and Mom met. And I asked Mom this question and you haven’t heard her podcast yet. So, we’re going to compare notes to see how similar they are.
Bob Buchanan: So, one of my best friends and I ended up being a roommate with him was Larry Zahn from Oklahoma City. And he knew about this girl from Oklahoma City, who was going to freshmen at a junior college in New York called Briarcliff, and that’s just outside of New York City. So, one thing led to another and it was a blind date. And that’s how we met.
Bob Buchanan: But jumping way ahead, I had also grown up the son of a mother from Kansas City, Missouri, and a father, who was from this area who fell in love with her Midwestern values and ways. And so, I was comfortable with the Oklahoma analogy, if you will, and me being from the east and me being exposed to those Midwestern values. And Larry Zahn epitomize all those fun things about the Midwest, smart, capable. And then when I met Sharon, it was a continuation of that. Although I didn’t think we’d ever go anywhere because she was seeing the world. She was doing everything she could to get outside of Oklahoma to see the world and she was not wasting a minute. She was taking it all in.
Ryan Buchanan: Was she giving you the Heisman sometimes, like a little bit of interest, and then take it easy, Bob?
Bob Buchanan: No. We became very good friends. And I thought we were going to have a wonderful platonic relationship. And it wasn’t until we were sitting in a tree watching a bike race and just started to talk about things that weren’t particularly thought through just one thing led to another and we found that we really were interested in what our values were. And one thing led to another, led to a dance in New York City and through the college and I fell head over heels.
Bob Buchanan: But I also didn’t know that I had fallen in love with her because I was dating another girl at the time. But when I realized that I kept comparing that other girl to Sharon, then I realized I was dating the wrong girl. And it was over for the one. But I didn’t know that I would be accepted by the other.
Ryan Buchanan: Got it. And you and Mom have been madly in love for 55 years of marriage and you’ve given me thousands of pieces of advice about all kinds of things. So, I was wondering if you could give some advice to all of us on the secret to a long-standing, happy marriage.
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Bob Buchanan: Well, your mother doesn’t like me to say this all the time because I use this adage more often than I should. But if each of you feels lucky to have the other, chances are this is going to work out. And I made that not just for my wedded happiness but also partnerships and doing business with people. If you feel lucky to be doing business with the person you’re doing business with, chances are things are going to work out fine.
Bob Buchanan: And in my case, I’ve always felt very lucky that Sharon and I have been married and she’s introduced me to so many things that I never would have been involved in had it not been for her and it’s really broadened my life and the birding, the art, you name it, and travel. But I’ve always felt very, very lucky. And when you feel lucky, you don’t have bad days. At the end of the day, you’re lucky to be with the people you’re with.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. That’s good stuff. I like it. This is a bit of a shift from talking about love to maybe more loyalty and values and country first. But why did you decide to go into the Navy right after college? And I didn’t think about it until now, but wasn’t granddad even though he had polio, he was in the Coast Guard?
Bob Buchanan: Yeah. He’s served in the Coast Guard because he couldn’t be in the Navy, but he wanted to serve. And I think it wasn’t my decision as much as it was my father’s decision. In my, again, my elite education, having gone to a private boys school and then being able to go to Yale, my dad wanted me to be exposed and be able to serve the country and at the same time be exposed to people who did not have that elite education, but were just as smart if not smarter than me.
Bob Buchanan: And so, I enlisted in a program called ROC, Reserve Officer Candidate in my sophomore year. And in order to become an officer, you had to both go through OCS in the summer and graduate from that, as well as you had to graduate from college. If you didn’t, you were going to be an enlisted person for the term of your tour. And if you did pass those things, you would get a commission as an officer.
Bob Buchanan: So, that actually helped me a lot being an enlisted man and seeing how men reacted to the leadership they served under and what impressed the men as to what a good leader was. And so, I got that perspective, as well as being a junior officer, of course, getting the perspective from senior officers and what they expected of me and it was a huge training life where I was being led by the best of the best, especially when I got into special operations.
Bob Buchanan: And I was fortunate to be in some amazing scenarios under leaders, and in some cases, my men and me, where I really got something I never could have gotten in an academic environment. So, the Navy, I ended up extending my time of service to one, go to language school and then due to special operations. But that probably gave me the commitment on what a leader needs to do and the confidence of leading that I wouldn’t have had otherwise.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah, in our conversations, long conversations, it seems like the Navy was a really defining moment of seven years and …
Bob Buchanan: Six years after, but they’re not-
Ryan Buchanan: That you have told a lot of stories of some commanders of what you learned what not to do at all. And there’s probably more of those than a few examples of like really great leadership. Would you share the … I forgot. I know all of your stories have morals to them. And some of them I forget. But I don’t know what the moral of this story other than it was like a very traumatic experience where you were supposed to be on a plane and a mission where you got pulled from it, but your men went anyway and none of them came back or I don’t know. There’s certain stories from Navy that stick with me even though I can’t piece the whole thing together.
Bob Buchanan: So, I ended up serving on an aircraft carrier serving on submarines and then ended up doing some flying missions as well. And one of those missions was flying along the Korean coast down along the Chinese coast and landing in Bangkok or Taiwan or somewhere, and then returning. And when we flew down and we were doing both COMINT, which is communications intelligence and SIGINT, which is signals intelligence, and the gist of these trips was to test what the capabilities were of the Koreans or the Chinese or whomever.
Bob Buchanan: And they weren’t thought to be that dangerous because we weren’t at war with Korea or the Chinese and it was crazy though, when we would fly into other parts of Southeast Asia, where you would hear, been in the field and actually have flak, artillery being fired at you. But North Korea and China were not threats. So, we slowed down-
Ryan Buchanan: It was during the Vietnam War.
Bob Buchanan: Sorry, yes, this is in the ’67 to ’70 timeframe. And when we landed on, I guess it was Taiwan, I got a message from our commanding officer informing me that he needed me back to the base immediately, leave as soon as you could, let the team go back on their own, because there was a surprise IG, inspector general mission that the commanding officer wanted me back to be able to help pass it. And I was head of a special department and he wanted me there.
Bob Buchanan: So, I came back by commercial and a couple other ways. And I did not fly back with my team that a North Korean MiG came out of nowhere and blew the plane up and no one survived. And the story goes further. It’s kind of one of those things that in retrospect, I probably anguish over more than anything, and that is at the funeral for the men a couple of days later. I couldn’t emotionally get involved in the loss and they were friends. They were great and everything about them. I should have helped memorialize their life.
Bob Buchanan: But all I could think about was, who am I going to get to replace them? Because I know I’m going to have to go out real quick. I don’t know where I’m going or how I’m going. But I just know that I’m going to be called on and who can I get that will follow, that will be good enough.
Bob Buchanan: And sure enough, two days after that, got another group. And we’re heading out on a helicopter to be lowered into a submarine going on station because President Nixon had said, “No fourth-rate military power is going to do that to my Navy, launch them.” And so, the Navy was launching them. And I was going out, I’ve never gone from a helicopter to a submarine before with all my gear on my back. And it didn’t land on, so we went down by cable. And none of the men have been trained. It was, like you say, baptism on a fire.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. I can’t imagine those are very defining stories and yeah, I can’t really relate to that, but I’m sure years later, you’re thinking about stories like that, but not living in the past, trying to take lessons and moving forward instead of anguish in the past.
Bob Buchanan: I think though, my pride in the Navy and my pride in being a part of what I went through, we were so well-trained that no one knew what we were doing. And when you’re that well trained, and I’m sure the military today can say the same thing, we have no idea of their capabilities. But you have that pride and therefore, you’re not really scared. You’re apprehensive. And of course, you don’t know what you don’t know. But you know you’re so well trained and the people around you are picked to be who they are, so that you have confidence that you’ll figure it out.
Bob Buchanan: And I was lucky because it always doesn’t work out the way you thought because of someone doing something that hadn’t been done before. And in that case, we were reacting to something that no one had planned for.
Ryan Buchanan: So, you have this adventure of being in Sasebo, Japan, on the naval base there with your mom and doing one of these special ops trips. And it was a really kind of vibrant time of it of a lot of activity. And then to go from that to coming back home to work with or for your dad like, why did that happen and why did you agree to that when it seems like in a young man’s life, that might seem kind of boring?
Bob Buchanan: Well, there’s a couple answers. Number one, as I was winding down the end of my tour, it was a three-year tour, there is a lot of interest from the military to keep me in the CIA to be involved, for me to be in the CIA. And I was kind of burned out. I was proud of what I had done, but the intensity of these missions were such that when I came back, your mom would say, “Okay, your mind, we’re going to go traveling. We’re going to go into these little Japanese villages and just get lost.” And I would say, “No, no, no. I’m on call and someone’s going to need to get me.” She said, “If they need you that bad, they’ll find out where you are. But right now, you need to get back with me and the girls.”
Bob Buchanan: And so, I really did not want to have a life where I was away from your mom and the family. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I knew I was at a point where I had to make a decision and I didn’t know how to make that decision. I really was floundering. When your grandmother called, my mom called, and again back in those days, when you’re talking overseas, you’re literally putting the phone between your legs and cupping your hands and shouting into the mouthpiece because the connections were so bad.
Bob Buchanan: But she called and she basically said, “Proud of you. Glad you’ve done such a good thing. And I’m calling you to tell you it’s time to come home. Your father needs you. He won’t make this call, but I am. Come on home.” And first she asked me, “Do you know what you want to do?” And I had hesitated, maybe a nanosecond, in fact, and she said, “Good. Come on home. Your father needs you.” And the rest is history.
Bob Buchanan: So, one, when your mother calls, always respect her wishes. Two, she was right. I needed to have someone like that make that decision inevitable for me, but I did come back, Ryan, to your point. And I hadn’t had a business degree or I wasn’t familiar with the jargon. There was a period of a couple years where I didn’t know a lot of the things that people were talking about. And part of it was the accounting, the taxing, just the gist of it. I knew how to lead and I had ideas, but I was floundering for a while.
Bob Buchanan: And I didn’t regret it because I saw my dad did need me. And I saw that there was an opportunity. And I also was living in the time where we were trying to get out of Vietnam in the early ’70s. And the discord that I saw in the United States over Vietnam really convinced me that it was good that I wasn’t involved with that anymore. Plus, I’d had some personal experiences where I just didn’t want to talk about Vietnam for 10 years.
Ryan Buchanan: So, we haven’t talked about Buchanan Partners this whole time, and it’s a big part of I mean, your identity, having been President since you were, what? Thirty five? When did you take over from granddad?
Bob Buchanan: Again, back to your grandmother’s wisdom, there was a time, it was about 1975-ish. She called my dad, the old bull and me, the young bull. She had the two bulls sit down at the table and say to the old bull, she said, “Buck,” that was his nickname, “we should make Bob comfortable that he has a future here. Let’s tell him how and when we’d like for him to buy the business if he’s interested and put a price to it. And so, he can see that he has a future that it’s worth all the work he’s doing, that he can take over the business and this is how you’re going to do it.”
Bob Buchanan: So, that laid out, if you will, a sense of my truly going to be the third generation of the company. It’s been started by my grandfather. He was more of a broker. My father was residential. And we were starting to do some land development that interested me more than just building a house. And that led to me being approached by a very big oil firm that had a real estate subsidiary, and they were interested in making me their local partner if I was interested in working with them.
Bob Buchanan: And I saw that as a huge opportunity, because I’d seen how my father always had difficulty raising equity or getting loans for some of his projects, and here as I’m being approached by a major industrial giant, if you will, and I ended up having unlimited funds, but I had to be pretty innovative. I had to learn how to make these if plan A didn’t work, plan B or even plan C, be feasible.
Bob Buchanan: So, I bought the company, but then I took the company in a direction my father did not think would be successful. And I think one of the most harrowing times in my young career was breaking, literally breaking my father and just saying, “This is the way I’m going to take the company. This is where it’s going to go.” And he just completely disagreed. He did not think it would work. He didn’t think the oil company subsidiary knew what it was doing. And it would be a disaster. And later when it turned out to be anything but a disaster, he never would even have … He just said I was lucky.
Bob Buchanan: And that was frustrating. Because it was a lot of hard work. Yes, I was lucky in many respects because we were doing things ahead of the market. But we were making it happen because this was at a time when I mentioned earlier where the Washington area was exploding with all this federal funding going into local businesses. And we took advantage of that by building office buildings, office parks and mixed use.
Ryan Buchanan: So, to oversimplify where granddad was comfortable and maybe his unique ability was in building home, like home building communities, homes in the suburbs, maybe and yours is more building mixed communities with office, retail, industrial, housing like all together. Is that accurate?
Bob Buchanan: Yeah. We’ve over the years, and again, I think I told this to you once and I’ll tell it for everybody. Not to brag, but at one point, we were arguably the biggest suburban office park developer in Northern Virginia, which was a strong market. And now, when I go to those office parks, they’re basically functionally and geographically obsolete because of the move back into and no more suburban sprawl, more back into urban centers.
Bob Buchanan: And as you’ve seen with retail strips that are obsolete, you’re seeing with office buildings that are being repurposed for residential, et cetera, Buchanan Partners has evolved into the ability to do multifamily retail, some hotel development, residential, lot development and I know I’m leaving something out.
Bob Buchanan: But we’ve had the ability to do a mix of uses at a time where some developers couldn’t make the shift from their specialty into different kinds of product. And yet, the business has evolved and transformed for a lot of reasons in the past and more reasons in the future, just as we’re experiencing right today with people not going into the office and yet getting whatever work that has to be done through technology and other means. That doesn’t bode well for the office market going forward. And fortunately, we saw this and in the last couple years, we’ve been very involved in building up huge portfolio of industrial and flex use properties.
Ryan Buchanan: So, back to the time when your mom and your dad and you were talking about you being brought in the company and stuff like that, how many tears did you shed when I moved to Oregon and my sisters were in Lexington and Seattle at the time and the window to have one of your kids be part of this kind of not evaporate, but it just didn’t work because we were each creating our identities in other cities and other industries. But had you thought or dreamed about one of your kids being involved in the business?
Bob Buchanan: No, not really.
Ryan Buchanan: You can be honest. I mean, you can tap into your emotions right now, if you have to.
Bob Buchanan: I was surprised. I was surprised but not disappointed that no one wanted to have anything to do with it. And as I found out for a very good reason, you all had seen what I gone through with my sisters, and with my owning the company and they’re not being involved with the active operations of the company. And you didn’t want to have that experience. And I appreciated that.
Bob Buchanan: And I would also have to say it led to my being receptive to my partners coming in in the late ’90s and forming Buchanan Partners out of Buchanan Company, and that led to this diversity and this amazing growth. And I would say, there’s no way I could have envisioned this without the partners coming in and pushing it. Because one was very financially oriented. One was more in construction. And we now manage a billion and a half dollars’ worth of projects. And I never would have been able to have accomplished that had I not had that diversification.
Bob Buchanan: And I think, to my credit, when they came in, I said, “We’re going to be doing this a third, a third, a third.” And they said, “You’ve got the name, why are you giving us two thirds?” And I said, “Because we’re all going to be doing whatever it is we do, and you’re going to be earning it and I might have the name now. But you all will be helping to grow and make it what it can be.”
Bob Buchanan: And I think that sense of appreciation as well as a feeling of, I felt very lucky that they came in and pushed me to be more broad and be take advantage of some opportunities that I was not taking advantage of.
Ryan Buchanan: Obviously, we rebranded as Thesis, which was empowering to the up and coming leaders on my team, do you think that Buchanan Partners will rebrand in the next couple years? Is Brian or maybe some leadership steps up?
Bob Buchanan: You know, that’s a good question because when nobody knew who Brian was. There’s Steve, who was a son of a very prominent contractor. But the Buchanan name was pretty well established and I was known for my public-private partner involvement throughout the region as well as we had a very good reputation for integrity and doing the right thing and treating people right and doing products that stood the test of time.
Bob Buchanan: I kept waiting for people to say, “Let’s change the name,” but the feeling has been no, Buchanan is a name that is trusted, Buchanan is a name that shows roots in the community going way back three generations and our group is still relatively small, and none of them feel they could ever come close to having the same name recognition that Buchanan has generated over the years.
Bob Buchanan: So, I’m not saying that because I’m necessarily proud of it or anything else. For them as kind of factual. And as you witnessed by the ULI Award a year and a half ago, that has a high name recognition that comes with that award and I’ve benefited from that as well.
Ryan Buchanan: Okay, this is one of my last questions. And I’m surprised we haven’t gotten to any questions where we’ve really made an easy conversation harder, because you’re really good at that. I remember one time I’m walking back in the woods behind the house here at Black Butte Ranch. And I was just like, “I think in a handful of years, I’ll partially retire here. And it’s just dreaming and it’s fun.” And you said, “That is the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard.” I’m like, “Dad, I’m talking like in a little bit of time.” And you’re just like, “You’re going to lose all credibility with all your network in Portland and all.”
Ryan Buchanan: And so, anyway, I’m going to ask you a hard question in that what is the hardest most painful lesson you’ve ever confronted in three areas in your, I guess we were talking about business, so, we’ll start with business and personal life and then community efforts.
Bob Buchanan: Well, let me back up, I’ll do the last one first. On community efforts, being the son of a homebuilder, being a developer really has been a stigma throughout my career, not for me and not within the industry, but from others who felt the developers were greedy and too rich and weren’t any stalwart bastions of the community.
Bob Buchanan: And I remember when I was running for a council position in the city of Rockville in 1974 and this guy who was … You were running for five seats. And so, you weren’t running against an individual per se, there were five openings and you were just running on your own. Anyway, this guy publicly just stood up at a debate we were having, pointed his finger at me and said, “How could anybody even tolerate a developer being on this stage, much less the possibility he could be elected as council person?” I was horrified.
Bob Buchanan: And I thought to myself, “Wow, I’m going to beat this guy no matter what, and prove that a developer can do a good job and be fair and understand what’s going on.” But that again, these bad moments can be motivating.
Bob Buchanan: The second one would be in business. The fact that my father literally did everything he could to discourage me from going to be a partner with the oil company, was painful and I don’t think I ever got over it because he was so sure. And he didn’t realize that I was trying to cover what I saw were his weaknesses by having that strength of a partner. And yet, when I did succeed, he felt it was just lucky, that that’s all it was. I was lucky.
Bob Buchanan: Personal life, I don’t know that there’s anything that I would say was so painful. Nothing, nothing that I can really say with any meaning that I could … I guess I’ll give one example. And I mentioned earlier that I didn’t talk about being a Vietnam vet for 10 years when I got back in 1970. And the reason was primarily, my horror at being vilified by someone who was a neighbor. And the stories may be telling and I don’t tell it to make people feel sorry for me. I tell it because I think it happened a hell of a lot.
Bob Buchanan: And that was we moved into the neighborhood, it’s 1970. We moved from Japan. Mom says let’s have a cookout for the neighborhood and open house and have everybody over and we can serve some drinks and grill some food yada yada. And so, we’re busy in the kitchen and answering the door and serving drinks and we’re introducing ourselves.
Bob Buchanan: And this guy comes in the door with his wife and I literally had two drinks in my hand I was going to serve someone else. And I opened the door and he’s right there. So, I offered to him. And he says, “Hey, great to have you here. Where are you coming from?” And I said, “Well, we came from Japan.” And he said, “What were you doing in Japan?” I said, “I was in the Navy.” And he said, “Well, at least you weren’t in Vietnam.” And I said, “Well, actually, I did Spec Ops in Vietnam.”
Bob Buchanan: And he took the drink from his wife and he took the drink in his hand and handed it back to me and said, “Hon, let’s get out of here. This asshole is a Vietnam vet.” And turned and walked down right out the front door. And I thought to myself, wow. I don’t think I want to have that experience happening. And I was just standing there by myself thinking, “Why would anyone do that?”
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. Not a proud moment in our history. So, the last question is a lot of what I try and get at in this podcast is kind of life moments from our past where it’s not a surprise where we got to where we are and you might have already shared that with a lot of life learning moments in the Navy, it might be in family and in your case, family business or any of those things. But we could end up with a life that doesn’t have a lot of meaning in it and not a lot of intention in it or obviously, yours has a lot of both. And I just wonder, what kind of life moment from your past do you credit with either the grit or the independence or the whatever that it’s not a surprise where you are?
Bob Buchanan: Well, I think sometimes it’s rare when you have your business and other people you’ve been interviewing have their businesses and sometimes, you’re so focused on making sure that business succeeds and doing what you have to do in the immediate that you don’t really give yourself credit for where you’ve been and where you’re going. And you don’t really have any of these aha moments that you share with yourself, if you will.
Bob Buchanan: And one night, it was again, it was probably a time to stay alive to ’95. So, it was probably in the early ’90s. And we were going through a real recession and the real estate industry was really going through a big recession. And I’ve always been very cautious about having enough funds and liquidity to do whatever I had to do, whether keep things going on or to take advantage of an opportunity.
Bob Buchanan: But I was putting a heck of a lot of money into the company. And I didn’t think about it very much. She used to write a check to cover payroll or cover the operating costs, et cetera. But one night, it was late and a hard day, and I’m writing another series of checks for pretty big numbers. And I’m thinking, “Whoa, you need to think about this. You’re just writing these checks like there’s no tomorrow and everything’s going to be fine. This thing, there’s no end in sight. Your wife doesn’t know you’re spending a lot of your reserves and money for the kids’ education, et cetera. What in the world is your plan?”
Bob Buchanan: And I thought about all the things I could do. I thought can close, reduce the payroll by letting people go. I thought about maybe trying to sell off some of the better assets to be able to hold on. I didn’t know. And then I finally said, “You know what? One, I don’t know anything else. Everything I’ve done made sense at the time. I’ve got a great team. I got a hold together because this too will end, and when it does, we’re really going to be well positioned.
Bob Buchanan: So, don’t be so upset. Be happy. You’re happy, knowing what you are, who you are, and you’re lucky enough you’ve saved enough to be able to carry through. That’s what you did it for. So, what are you bitching about? Write the damn check and go home and have a drink and tell your wife you love her.”
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. Well, that’s super relevant to … I have a hundred entrepreneur friends, some of whom are in the restaurant business or the small business retail, and have had to lay off their whole staff because of coronavirus and massive shutdown of the economy. So, that is something a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to, for sure.
Bob Buchanan: Well, and I think on that note, I don’t think any of us have a clue how bad this is going to be. I think it’s going to be bad and I don’t think it’s going to go away anytime soon, the repercussions of it. But if we do get to know ourselves better, our families better and we do value those things that are important, and pay attention to that versus being on such a fast paced that we’ve been on, there will be good that comes out of this. And I also think much needed change for us as a country to realize the important things and to close the huge gap that’s widened between the haves and the have nots and to appreciate the people who really do deserve a lot more than they’ve been getting in the past.
Bob Buchanan: And I just hope this has been a wake-up call for our country and we can be far more united and far more open and the place where if you were willing to take a risk, if you’re willing to fail, you could rise up and be successful. And I think the fear of failure cannot dominate how we lead our lives. And it’s going to test us. There’s no question we’re going to be tested. And I just hope we have enough faith in ourselves that we’ll do the right thing.
Ryan Buchanan: Amen. I agree. I think we often can’t control what our country and our country’s leadership can do. But we can be super grateful for what is happening in our family and all the family units within our larger family and happy with the culture that we create in our company, which is like a second family and things like that. And so, to pull on your Japan days and be Buddhist in the moment of the present with what is happening there, that is great because it’s hard to live in the future. And I have a feeling that our memories tend to be really short as human beings.
Ryan Buchanan: So, let’s just hold on to what is happening now on the good front as far as really connecting and having better marriages and better relationships with our kids than maybe we’ve ever had. So, there’s definitely some silver linings in this kind of crisis that we’re in.
Bob Buchanan: I think one of the things that’s going to be interesting as to how academics respond and how we look at how our kids can learn better. And we look at pre-K education for early childhood care and education. I think the reset button needs to be pushed in a lot of areas, not just healthcare, but in education as well. And of course, the things you’re doing with some of their many organizations of reaching out and getting people exposed to what life can be with education, with good training, I think we have to be more cognizant of the importance of that because there’s going to be a lost generation if we don’t.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah, I think as we look to this decade, we might consider it being kind of a hybrid life type of decade of using education, how can technology not be more embedded in education and eLearning and then the hybrid life of technology and in person, virtual and all that and in healthcare and in every facet of our life, I think there’s no way around it, so.
Bob Buchanan: Well, you’re at the cutting edge of all that. You’re the next gen that’s going to be taking the lead and you’re going to be more comfortable with the innovativeness, the need for innovativeness. It’s going to be exciting to watch you. As one who normally doesn’t want to be a bystander, I think my role will be to hopefully mentor, answer questions and/or ask the right questions to get people to think about the consequences. But you’re on the frontline.
Ryan Buchanan: Well, I would just end with how proud I am of you and Mom for everything, but especially for being able to execute the Zoom call. It’s a lot of technology.
Bob Buchanan: I’m tested to the max here.
Ryan Buchanan: Yeah. So, thank you, thank you and excited for you and Mom to now be part of the Cause and Effect interviewee community that you’ll be joining our digital happy hours and such. So, great interview. Thank you, Dad and have an awesome day.
Bob Buchanan: Thank you. Good questions.
Ryan Buchanan: Thanks Dad. Bye.
The interviewer + author, Ryan Buchanan, is a social and for-profit entrepreneur who co-founded a pathway to leadership program for professionals of color called Emerging Leaders as well as founder + CEO of a data-driven, digital marketing agency, Thesis.
